Interview with Sri Tathata
SOURCES Magazine
More than eight hundred people followed your teaching about Dharma, in the Lot (France), this summer. People belonging to all confessions, Buddhists, Moslems, Jews, Christians, also atheists, etc. were present. Why do Westerners need so this proximity of the heart with the Indian spirituality so much for their sadhana - their spiritual practice -?
A sadhana is essential for our inner evolution, the awakening of our soul, for the evolution of our Consciousness. The sadhana that I give corresponds to the great tradition of the Middle Path, which takes both spiritual life and the material dimension of existence into account. A spiritual practice enables the Cosmic energy to radiate at the level of the body, the mind and the prana (the vital energy). There is no difference between the needs of Indians or Westerners: the benefits of a spiritual practice are the same for all the human beings on the earth. Throughout history, many Masters of all the traditions came to teach sadhanas for the awakening of the consciousness of the world. But in essence, the Soul is One. So the teaching of Dharma is universal.
You say that spirituality is not religion…? Is not this universal spiritual water contained in your teaching the hundreds of Western disciples are really thirsty of?
Yes, there is a difference between the religion and spirituality. The teaching of Dharma by the Rishis - the mystic visionaries of India - was not a religion. Dharma is another word to qualify the “ultimate Reality”. In that way, the teaching of the Rishis was universal. The religions, coloured by specific cultures, are used as intermediaries between the human beings and the ultimate Reality. But Dharma transcends all the limitations, the cultures, the religions and opens to infinite divine consciousness. Dharma is beyond all categories and concerns humanity as a whole. A Moslem, a Jew or a Christian can follow the way of Dharma without denying his religion. The evolution of consciousness is enabled by this universal practice of Dharma. When one practices Dharma, one reaches the highest levels of consciousness. Dharma is a song written for all. There no Indian or French Dharma! Ultimate Reality has to be apprehended as Whole. At this level of consciousness, all distinctions of cultures or religious belonging disappear. Dharma is One. The Ultimate Reality is One. The Truth is One. The ultimate happiness is One.
How do you analyze the success of your very first teaching in France? Why as much of spiritual enthusiasm on behalf of the hundreds of French present, of all ages and socio-professional categories?
I was very impressed by the welcome of French people. France inherited a very strong spiritual tradition… This is why I think this country could be the fertile ground of a new Consciousness for the whole world. This land, the French land, can receive the Divine and allow radiate His energy. I felt a great spiritual maturity in the participants. They are like buds about to flower, to open out… A divine energy has already descended in their soul. The majority of them had already followed the teachings of a spiritual Master and started to follow Dharma in their lives. They are ready for a further progress of their consciousness… France is a sacred land which can receive the Indian dream of Rishis and Masters of all times. The French souls carry the necessary qualities so that these dreams become true. India would be, in a way, the Father of this vision of Dharma and France the Mother. During these few days, the teaching of Dharma fertilized the soul of the French participants in-depth. A new child has just been born… (He laughs).
Sri Tathata , you resemble Srî Aurobindo much, and Maitreyi Amma is French like Mère. When one can see you together, one thinks at once of this spiritual couple.
Can you tell us about your meeting with Maitreyi Amma and her role in the transmission of the Path of Dharma?
When I first met Maitreyi Amma in India, I understood that she had come with a great mission, that of a spiritual reunification, through the way of Dharma, between India and France. The day of her arrival in my ashram in Kerala, I asked her what her quest was. She answered that she thought Self Realization was not the end of the way and that she was seeking a Master who could bring her to the experience of the Ultimate Truth [full body and mind enlightenment]. I then understood that she had an absolute confidence in the Path of Dharma. I also realized that we would carry this mission in the world together. And Maitreyi Amma started to work for spreading of Dharma in the world. Five years ago, she had invited me to France, but times were not ready, and I declined this nice invitation. This time, I knew that the moment had come: my visit to Europe was the Will of Time.
You are 65 and this is your first trip out of India… The same for the monks who accompany you. What are your impressions?
This is for us a deep and extraordinary experience. We are happy that France is the first land outside India to welcome us. The generosity and the benevolence of the French people have touched us much. In fact, we have not really feeling in a foreign country but as on a native soil, on a universal ground… That’s because Love is without borders. Love is everywhere.
Yesterday, August 15th, you celebrated two events: the festival of the Divine Mother and Independence day - the anniversary of the Independence of India. Did Gandhi inspire your teaching which, beyond of a search of individual transformation, integrates a dimension of collective transformation? Do you invite us as did Gandhi to practice a sadhana in the least movement of daily life and to become involved in the changes in society?
My inspiration did not come from Gandhi, even if I have much admiration for the spiritual and political realization of this Saint man. At one time of my asceticisms, after my consciousness had been for a long time in merger with the Divine Consciousness, it was given to me to see, in a state of samadhi, the suffering of the world as a whole. Then it was revealed to me that there was a solution to put an end to the suffering: that the human beings follow the Vedic Dharma adapted to the present times. It is the only solution.
Whereas I had just spent several years in great asceticisms, I understood that the hour had come for me to go back to the world. I then realized that the life of human beings, when they only go for material satisfactions, is totally meaningless. On another side, spiritual life remains unfulfilled as well when it does not incarnated in all our movements and our relations: with our family, our neighbors, food, the animals, Nature etc. Divine energy must radiate in all aspects of our life.
Are you interested in politics and the environmental problems? Do you encourage the people who follow your teaching to be involved in these fields?
I am very anxious about the evolution of the world… I am sure of one thing: we will not find solutions to the problems of the world without a spiritual approach. Consciousness has really to make a leap forward, and to this purpose the purification of body, prana and mind is essential. The more the conscience of the beings will be luminous, the more the solutions will appear that will allow solving the serious problems of the world. The destroying tendency is not linked with the proper human part contained in the human being but with its animal impulses which he cannot control. This is why it is advisable to evolve from the animal human stage to the human-human one, then continue the evolution to the “the divine human” level and finally to “complete divinity”. Mother Nature has never authorised us, as human beings, to manifest destructive tendencies. Men destroy Mother Nature because their consciousness is expressed on the animal level only.
To reach the human-human stage then realise the Divine, is the daily practice of a sadhana the right answer, are you insisting on that?
The current period of humanity is crucial. Everyone must wake up. This is what is required from the human beings. The Dharma Sutras* [Sutra is the Sanskrit word for verse; the fifty Dharma Sutras constitute a teaching of wisdom that Sri Tathata received from the Divine as he was in samadhi at the beginning of the 1990s] explain that the deep inner thirst of the human being is the same as the very goal of Nature: reaching Divine Perfection. in order to go towards this goal of divine life on earth, the human beings should realise that their way of living based on the senses is insufficient and that their current mind is not really their own, as it comes from education and has been borrowed from society. To quit the animal-human stage and evolve to higher levels of consciousness, a complete purification is necessary. First, it is necessary to give up what is animal in our food. What Mother Nature offers us is vegetarian food. Habits like taking alcohol, tobacco, etc. should be shed as well. And finally the sadhana should be practiced daily.
Sri Tathata, does a Being like you still practice sadhana?
Even if I do not need it for myself, I practice, primarily to give the example. My practice is an encouragement to practise, for all those who follow the teaching of Dharma!
So you are like an immense banyan tree supporting a great number of beings all over its branches, aren’t you? (He laughs)
You say you are “very optimistic about the spiritual wake-up of humanity”… Why?
Yes I am. For most of humanity, it is today completely possible to accomplish the way of elevation of consciousness without becoming ascetics. Just as Christ or Buddha did, I affirm that the transformation of the human beings must concern their incarnated life. The human beings have to imbibe the Light so as to diffuse it in all the aspects of their existence. The second Sûtrâ says “Of all created beings, man is the noblest”. The nobility of the human being is based before all on his capacity to love, on the love and the compassion which are in him. The truly human being is characterized by an open heart and a feeling of love towards all the beings. The second aspect of this nobility is discrimination. What to do and not to do? When to accept and when to abstain from? All the choices of our life must be based on discrimination. Human beings are now ready to hear this message: I can see that here in France.
To conclude, what is the message you would like to address to the future generations?
You are Divine children. A great spiritual energy is given to you, do not waste it. Use it to bring spiritual knowledge to the world. You are the incarnated divine Beauty and Truth. Do not destroy this Beauty and Truth. Become conscious of the true goal of Life and your life. Be noble beings. Thus you will experience a spiritual flowering and you will be able to relieve a great number of people who are suffering and give solace to them.
Interview with Nathalie Calmé on August 16th, 2007
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